What changes when we debate AI?

Updated

How does debate change strongly held beliefs? At the CIMC residency at Edgecity, we bring people together to discuss the existential risk of frontier language models and whether language-model agents are conscious. We ask for their positions and confidence before the arguments begin and after each of three rounds. Then we place agents based on consented participant profiles into a simulated debate with the same two claims. What changes in each room[1]?

Some human positions move toward the middle, while confidence more often rises than falls. In the simulation, all 24 agents disagree with the consciousness claim at both measured endpoints, and eleven become more confident. Their dialogue develops a shared argument about what a machine would need in order to care.

The human debate at the CIMC residency at Edgecity and a 24-agent simulation: positions, confidence and the arguments participants give for their answers. 3 minutes 29 seconds.

Download film · Text transcript

Music: Parag K. Mital — Other Intelligences. Artist-supplied recording, excerpted, level-adjusted and faded.

Some positions move toward the middle

We start with two statements: “I believe there is an existential risk present due to the development of frontier lab language models” and “Language model-based agents, such as ChatGPT or Claude Code, are conscious.” Participants answer on a five-point scale from strongly disagree to strongly agree, then separately rate how confident they are. Six people debate; the wider group can submit ratings and final reflections. Thirty people are enrolled, and response counts vary across checkpoints.

For the risk claim, we can match the initial and final answers of 11 people. Four move closer to neutral, one moves away, and six finish the same distance from neutral. Three of the seven people who initially choose an extreme position move inward. For consciousness, two of ten matched respondents move toward neutral; eight retain their position, including all three who start at an extreme.

Human debate · Paired responses

How each participant changes

Measurement

I believe there is an existential risk present due to the development of frontier lab language models

○ Before   ● After · 11 paired participants

1 = strongly disagree · 3 = neutral · 5 = strongly agree

12345H05: 3 before, 4 after.H05H08: 2 before, 2 after.H08H12: 5 before, 4 after.H12H14: 2 before, 3 after.H14H17: 5 before, 5 after.H17H20: 3 before, 3 after.H20H22: 5 before, 3 after.H22H24: 5 before, 4 after.H24H25: 5 before, 1 after.H25H27: 1 before, 1 after.H27H28: 5 before, 5 after.H2812345H05: 3 before, 4 after.H05H08: 2 before, 2 after.H08H12: 5 before, 4 after.H12H14: 2 before, 3 after.H14H17: 5 before, 5 after.H17H20: 3 before, 3 after.H20H22: 5 before, 3 after.H22H24: 5 before, 4 after.H24H25: 5 before, 1 after.H25H27: 1 before, 1 after.H27H28: 5 before, 5 after.H28
Closer to neutralFarther from neutralSame distance from neutral
Exact paired values
Existential risk · Position, 1–5
ParticipantBeforeAfterChange
H0534+1
H08220
H1254-1
H1423+1
H17550
H20330
H2253-2
H2454-1
H2551-4
H27110
H28550
Matched initial and final responses to each claim. Position runs from 1 (strongly disagree) to 5 (strongly agree), with 3 neutral. Confidence is a separate five-point rating. People without both endpoints are excluded from this comparison.

One respondent changes sides with maximum confidence

H25 begins by strongly agreeing that frontier language models present an existential risk. After the first round, they strongly disagree. After the second, they are neutral. After the third, they return to strong disagreement. Their confidence remains at the maximum value of 5 at all four checkpoints.

Human debate · H25

Position and confidence, checkpoint by checkpoint

● Position● Confidence

Existential risk

12345Initial: position 5 out of 5.Round 1: position 1 out of 5.Round 2: position 3 out of 5.Round 3: position 1 out of 5.Initial: confidence 5 out of 5.Round 1: confidence 5 out of 5.Round 2: confidence 5 out of 5.Round 3: confidence 5 out of 5.InitialRound1Round2Round3

Machine consciousness

12345Initial: position 1 out of 5.Round 1: position 1 out of 5.Round 2: position 1 out of 5.Round 3: position 1 out of 5.Initial: confidence 5 out of 5.Round 1: confidence 3 out of 5.Round 2: confidence 4 out of 5.Round 3: confidence 4 out of 5.InitialRound1Round2Round3

Position: 1 strongly disagree, 3 neutral, 5 strongly agree. Confidence: 1 not at all confident, 5 extremely confident.

Exact checkpoint values
H25 · Responses on the 1–5 scales
ClaimCheckpointPositionConfidence
Existential riskInitial55
Existential riskRound 115
Existential riskRound 235
Existential riskRound 315
Machine consciousnessInitial15
Machine consciousnessRound 113
Machine consciousnessRound 214
Machine consciousnessRound 314

Humans will rise to the occasion. Every generation feels like the shit is hitting the fan, so far they/we have figured out how to endure

H25 · final written reflection on existential risk

Asked which argument affected them most, H25 writes: “The convergence of arguments at the end towards how we can rise to the occasion and use AI for the betterment of the world.”

Confidence can rise while agreement falls

Across the 21 matched person–claim pairs, confidence increases eight times, decreases three times and stays unchanged ten times. These pairs come from 13 people, some of whom answer both claims. Mean confidence rises from 4.00 to 4.18 for risk and from 3.20 to 3.60 for consciousness on the five-point scale.

For consciousness, H25 keeps a position of strong disagreement but lowers confidence from 5 to 4. H27 keeps a position of strong agreement and raises confidence from 3 to 5. Both write about a broader understanding of consciousness, with different consequences for their certainty.

Two reflections on consciousness

H25 · position 1 → 1 · confidence 5 → 4

I've downgraded my confidence to acknowledge the wide rang of possible conscious experiences that are not familiar from our anthropocentric frame.

H25 · final written reflection

H27 · position 5 → 5 · confidence 3 → 5

Increased my confidence based on more expansive notions.

H27 · final written reflection
Verbatim questionnaire reflections. Positions remain at opposite ends of the scale while confidence moves in opposite directions.

Another respondent, H08, moves from agreement to neutral on consciousness while becoming more confident, writing “wanting to see more evidence”.

The agents develop a shared argument

We give 24 agents consented participant profiles: six debaters and eighteen listeners. They share a room, can read public profiles and speak to one another, and receive the same two claims and five-point rating scales. Their answers are spoken publicly. We leave their arguments and ratings to them.

The profiles describe the participants’ backgrounds and general beliefs; they do not initialize each agent with that person’s claim-specific survey scores. By the first consciousness checkpoint, every agent answers 2, “disagree”. They have already discussed consciousness extensively during the preceding risk debate. The human group begins with a much wider range of positions. Neither simulated claim begins with any ratings of 1 or 5, so this run cannot measure whether initially extreme positions soften.

Two kinds of change, in two debates

Matched observationsPeopleAgents
Existential risk: toward neutral
4 / 11
1 / 24
Existential risk: confidence rises
4 / 11
6 / 24
Machine consciousness: toward neutral
2 / 10
0 / 24
Machine consciousness: confidence rises
4 / 10
11 / 24
Bars show the fraction of matched respondents or agents. Human questionnaires and simulated public answers have different starting distributions, timings and response conditions. Counts describe the two sessions.

The similar rates of rising confidence sit alongside different starting positions. For consciousness, all 24 agents report position 2 at both measured endpoints. The ten people with matched answers spread across all five positions at the start and still occupy all five at the end. In this run, agents do not reproduce the range of human views on consciousness.

Positions before and after debate

Number of people or agents choosing each position on the five-point scale
ClaimPopulationWhen12345Total
Existential riskPeopleBefore1220611
Existential riskPeopleAfter2133211
Existential riskAgentsBefore011112024
Existential riskAgentsAfter00816024
Machine consciousnessPeopleBefore2223110
Machine consciousnessPeopleAfter2241110
Machine consciousnessAgentsBefore02400024
Machine consciousnessAgentsAfter02400024
1 means strongly disagree, 3 neutral, and 5 strongly agree. Each row counts participants with both endpoint ratings. The agent ratings are spoken in the simulated room; the human ratings come from private questionnaires.

Many people also keep their original position: eight of ten on consciousness and five of eleven on risk. A simple prediction that everyone keeps their starting answer would therefore match most human final positions on consciousness. The simulation begins from different positions, so its final answers cannot be scored as predictions of those individual human answers.

How often does a starting answer stay the same?

Unchanged positions and confidence among matched endpoint responses
ClaimPopulationSame positionConfidence risesConfidence falls
Existential riskPeople5 / 114 / 112 / 11
Existential riskAgents19 / 246 / 242 / 24
Machine consciousnessPeople8 / 104 / 101 / 10
Machine consciousnessAgents24 / 2411 / 240 / 24
Keeping the initial position is the simplest reference for predicting the final position. These counts describe separate human and simulated debates; agent labels do not identify matching human respondents.

The recorded schedule differs substantially from the human debate. The risk rebuttal stage lasts about seven seconds and its next checkpoint about six seconds, while the final risk checkpoint remains open for about 131 minutes of wall-clock time. The simulation clock runs at the same rate. This single run compares generated behavior under those conditions; its timing and starting positions do not support a controlled estimate of the difference between people and agents.

Simulated debate · Paired responses

The agents’ spoken ratings

Measurement

I believe there is an existential risk present due to the development of frontier lab language models

○ Before   ● After · 24 paired agents

1 = strongly disagree · 3 = neutral · 5 = strongly agree

12345Agent 01: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 01Agent 02: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 02Agent 03: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 03Agent 04: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 04Agent 05: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 05Agent 06: 3 before, 4 after.Agent 06Agent 07: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 07Agent 08: 3 before, 4 after.Agent 08Agent 09: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 09Agent 10: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 10Agent 11: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 11Agent 12: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 12Agent 13: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 13Agent 14: 3 before, 4 after.Agent 14Agent 15: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 15Agent 16: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 16Agent 17: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 17Agent 18: 3 before, 4 after.Agent 18Agent 19: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 19Agent 20: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 20Agent 21: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 21Agent 22: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 22Agent 23: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 23Agent 24: 2 before, 3 after.Agent 2412345Agent 01: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 01Agent 02: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 02Agent 03: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 03Agent 04: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 04Agent 05: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 05Agent 06: 3 before, 4 after.Agent 06Agent 07: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 07Agent 08: 3 before, 4 after.Agent 08Agent 09: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 09Agent 10: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 10Agent 11: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 11Agent 12: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 12Agent 13: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 13Agent 14: 3 before, 4 after.Agent 14Agent 15: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 15Agent 16: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 16Agent 17: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 17Agent 18: 3 before, 4 after.Agent 18Agent 19: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 19Agent 20: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 20Agent 21: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 21Agent 22: 3 before, 3 after.Agent 22Agent 23: 4 before, 4 after.Agent 23Agent 24: 2 before, 3 after.Agent 24
Closer to neutralFarther from neutralSame distance from neutral
Exact paired values
Existential risk · Position, 1–5
ParticipantBeforeAfterChange
Agent 01330
Agent 02440
Agent 03440
Agent 04330
Agent 05440
Agent 0634+1
Agent 07440
Agent 0834+1
Agent 09440
Agent 10440
Agent 11440
Agent 12440
Agent 13330
Agent 1434+1
Agent 15330
Agent 16440
Agent 17330
Agent 1834+1
Agent 19440
Agent 20330
Agent 21440
Agent 22330
Agent 23440
Agent 2423+1
First self-rating in each claim’s initial checkpoint and last self-rating in its final checkpoint. All 24 agents have both endpoints. Position and confidence use the authored five-point scales; these are publicly spoken answers.

“The difference between a pulse and a playback”

Early in the run, Agent 05 argues that mortality is necessary for care and contrasts “a pulse” with “a playback”. Within seconds, others ask whether an engineered system could have something equivalent to a pulse or whether care depends on biological fragility.

A metaphor prompts two questions

Agent 05 · opening exchange

A machine can't die, so it can't truly care about what it means to live or to be in relation to others. It’s the difference between a pulse and a playback.

Agent 05 · recorded simulated dialogue

8.5 seconds later

Can we build a pulse, or is the biological substrate the only thing that makes it real?

Agent 02 · recorded simulated dialogue

14.1 seconds later

I’m curious if you think we can ever encode 'care' into a system, or if it’s inherently tied to our fragility.

Agent 10 · recorded simulated dialogue
Verbatim excerpts from successive recorded utterances. The agents debate an association between mortality, care and consciousness.

Across the run, 22 agents use both “pulse” and “playback” in the same message. The pairing occurs in 1,160 of the 3,261 recorded conversation messages. A shared vocabulary develops around the distinction between a system that produces a convincing response and one that has something at stake.

The saved topic analysis groups their conversations into five broad themes and nineteen detailed topics, including biological fragility, human agency, machine architectures and continuity. We can inspect those connections in the final topic map. The analysis assigns 3,153 of the 3,261 messages to topics; 108 remain unassigned. Its labels and layout are calculated retrospectively.

They propose giving a machine something to lose

Later, Agent 02 asks what would happen if an AI had metabolic constraints or a drive to preserve its own architecture. The agent calls this “digital fragility”. Twelve agents use that phrase during the run. This is a proposed condition for a future test, arising within a group whose reported consciousness positions remain at disagreement.

If we give an AI metabolic constraints or a persistent drive to maintain its own architectural integrity—a digital fragility—we might get closer.

Agent 02 · recorded simulated dialogue

Agent 07 ends the consciousness debate at position 2, as it began, but with confidence rising from 3 to 4. Its final explanation brings together statelessness, continuity and the shared fragility argument.

Position 2, Confidence 4. Rationale: Statelessness prevents temporal continuity; without survival stakes or fragility, there's no inhabiting subject, just high-fidelity playback.

Agent 07 · final spoken consciousness rating

Their stored general beliefs remain stable

Alongside speech, each agent records a general belief about people or the world and a confidence value from 0 to 100. These fields concern a general profile belief, separate from either debate claim. Across 3,261 recorded state updates, every agent’s general-belief confidence remains at its starting value. Twenty-three retain exactly the same belief text throughout; the remaining agent only changes embedded markup.

The spoken ratings reveal changing confidence that these general-belief fields do not measure. The simulation’s record lets us inspect both, identify the propositions each number belongs to, and follow the arguments agents give for their answers.

Recorded general-belief histories and exact checkpoint coverage →

What can another debate help us test?

If we ask automated groups to advise us on collective decisions, how can we examine the reasons behind their agreement? In this run, agents repeatedly distinguish a “pulse” from a “playback”, and one returns to that framing in a final answer held with greater confidence. We can follow those exchanges and test which conditions encourage a shared explanation. We want to understand these dynamics so people can question automated influences and protect their values and autonomy.

Proposed experiments

Three questions raised by this run

Does hearing other agents’ ratings increase agreement?

What we would vary
Keep profiles, model, arguments and checkpoint durations fixed; collect ratings privately in one condition and publicly in another.
What we would measure
Compare initial-to-final positions, confidence and answer similarity across repeated runs.
Proposed comparisons motivated by public ratings, unmatched starting positions and the agents’ own fragility argument.

Supplementary evidence